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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
Sadly this seems to be a trend that is on the increase. Truely an example of corrupt, unaccountable government, out of control.
This is something that could conceivably happen to anyone of us. It should make your blood boil and we ALL need to be ever vigilante and fight this where ever it occurs.
Property fight in Cumberland County heats up
Lawsuit occurs as assembly eyes reform on eminent domain
BY GREG EDWARDS
TIMES-DISPATCH STAFF WRITER
Saturday, March 11, 2006
Cumberland County's efforts to reclaim a school it sold at auction three years ago took a turn yesterday when the school superintendent appeared at the property to claim ownership.
Mary Meeks, the property's disputed owner, said she was intimidated by the actions of Superintendent James Thornton and others who showed up at the former elementary school without any warning. The school sits just off the north side of U.S. 60 in Cumberland, the county seat.
"This is not right, what they are doing," she said. The county is seeking to condemn her property for an amount that is only a third of what it is assessed for on county tax roles and much less than what she and her husband have invested, she said.
The condemnation dispute, in fact, has developed just as the General Assembly is considering a bill tightening up the state's eminent-domain laws. The legislature could make a final decision today whether it will go ahead with some sort of eminent-domain reform this year.
Meeks, a Farmville real estate agent, said she was in neighboring Buckingham County when county officials arrived at the old school and told a work crew and a tenant, who runs an appliance repair shop, that the county now owns the property. The workers were scared and so was the tenant, who was told he would have to start paying his rent to the county, Meeks said.
The county filed a condemnation suit and a certificate of taking against the property this week and deposited $200,000, the amount it estimates the property is worth, with the Cumberland County Circuit Court. Those filings, said Robert Hodges, the county's lawyer, gives ownership of the property to the county.
Not so, says Joe Waldo, the Meekses' lawyer, a property-rights advocate from Norfolk. Unless the Meekses relinquish the property willingly, the county cannot take it without a hearing and a court order, Waldo said.
State law, he said, says the county can get title to the property but only after the Meekses get due process.
Mary Meeks called county Sheriff Claude Meinhard to the school, and after Meinhard talked with Waldo on the phone and later with the superintendent, the county officials left. "They didn't apologize, but they left," she said.
Meeks said the officials told her that their attorney had told them they now owned the property.
The Times-Dispatch attempted to contact several county officials about the case yesterday but without success.
Meeks said she and her husband bought the school and 20 acres from the county with a sealed bid of $110,000 after it had been advertised for a month in a local newspaper. The school had sat vacant for several years and was in poor condition, she said.
They hoped to put in apartments and agreed to fix up the gymnasium and auditorium for public use, Meeks said. They obtained a $250,000 mortgage on the property and have spent about $400,000 renovating it, she said.
Besides the repair shop, four church groups use the building. The police have used the property for dog training and senior citizens walk in the gym for exercise, she said.
"I'll take it all the way to the Supreme Court," Meeks said. "This is not fair. . . . This is what I term eminent-domain abuse."
Property owners are going to fight when a condemnor tries to take property for less money than it's mortgaged for, Waldo said. Essentially the county is asking the Meekses to pay to sell their property to the county, he said.
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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
wingwiper, NO WHERE in the 5th amendment to the constitution is "fair market value" mentioned, nor is it intended. "JUST COMPENSATION" IS called for and required by the 5th amendment. Just compentation is to make the injured party whole again.........meaning like for like replacement or genuinely agreed upon compensation.
America needs to get this "fair market value" out of their heads. Fair market value decided by whom????? How can you place a fair market value on an historic family estate or farm owned for centuries? I wouldn't take 3 times "fair market value" for my place as I could not replace it for that amount. I would take a replacement ranch in additionm to ALL of my costs to get there however. That would be just compensation.
I have heard the arguements about the bum who lives in a tar paper shack holding up a project for millions. Just not a rational arguement. If the public project is that important, then the public won't mind paying what it take to get the project done instead of stealing private property at gun point.
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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
wingwiper, you are mixing apples and oranges here. Fair market value is and always has been predicated upon a genuinely WILLING seller and genuine WILLING PRIVATE PARTY BUYER. Eminent domain produces a price via the buyer holding a gun to the seller's head and dictating a price which is forced upon the unwilling seller. A key ingredient in fair market value is impact upon selling price the seller has by being able to refuse less than their target price. When you factor in other issues such as the reality that most sellers do not have the financial resources to sue or fight in court; they did as you did or any of us would have done and taken what you can get. This is most certainly NOT fair market value. It IS a buyer holding a gun to the seller's head and forcing the seller to accept the buyer's price.
A true example of "just compensation" would be rather than forcing a price at gun point upon the seller; assist the seller in identifying another property to their liking and assist the seller in completing an IRS Schedule 1031 Tax Exchange sale. The state would be required to buy the entire property if the seller refuses to sell only part. If the state is in fact offering fair market value, then purchasing the seller's entire property should not be an issue as the state can later auction off the uneeded portions of the condemned property at "fair market value".
i.e. if the state forces a 8 lane highway through the middle of my ranch and I choose not to sell only the land needed for the highway; the state would be required to buy my entire ranch and assist me in locating and purchasing another ranch to my liking. That IS just compensation.
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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
wingwiper, you can rationalize and attempt to justify anything you want but that is not what is in our constitution nor what the founding fathers wrote.
You speak of private property owners as if they are an endless supply of booty and plunder for the state to sieze for whatever reasons the so called tax payers deem.
I can try to illustrate to you what "fair market value" is but I just don't think you have any concept of fair market value and private property rights covered in our constitution.
No offense intend but you speak of the "tax payers" in much the same way that that Mao Tse Tung and Karl Marx spoke of "the people" when these governments engaged in the same things ours is doing now. Again, no where is "fair" mentioned in the 5th amendment. This clearly leads to the tyranny of the majority that Thomas Jefferson spoke of.
Although our nation and its municipalities have headed down the road of "if we can pass a law and the courts validate it, and law enforcement enforces it; it must be legal" mentality...........it does NOT make it constitutional.
What you contend is democracy governed society and this nation is NOT nor has it EVER been a democracy. No true democracy has ever survived in the history of mankind. It is a representative republic. We CANNOT just continue to vote for whatever we want as a majority. Our constitution and its original 10 amendments forbid this. In a nation of over 300 million (and growing) and ever dwindling finite resources; where does the line get drawn with respect to when the government, state, the tax payers (whatever term you choose) have siezed enough private property? In a Capitalist/Representative Republic aka the United States of America, the tax payers must be treated the same as ANY buyer in the market and compete just the same in order to have fair market value. Fair market value IS whatever price a truly willing seller and non-threating genuine buyer mutually and agreeabley arrive at. The EXTREMELY rare exception should be eminent domain used ONLY for ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL reasons of unavoidable neccessity.
The unfortunate reality due to greed, corruption, graft, and good ole' criminal conduct....... developers, power hungry political leaders, and liberal/socialist "do gooders" naturally resort to eminent domain to avoid paying fair market value. The "tax payer's" wants and absolute neccessities are two TOTALLY different things. Even our Candian friends understand this concept and do a MUCH better job with it. I am sure Murf can elablorate on this much than I can. Tag! Your it Murf! ;O)
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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
Your description leaves out some detail that would shock any reasonable person. Suffice it to say that in this case; law enforcement was totally out of control and made a horrible disaster out of a situation that should have been resolved administratively and peacefully.
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An Example of Government Fed Too Much of Our Money and Out of Control
Wingwiper, you are still not getting the crux of the issue. "Fair market value" in eminent domain cases is decided by the criminals attempting to steal the private property. "Just compensation" = TOTAL replacement cost (unless this is voluntarily waived by the owner) even "comparable market value would be better than fair market value.
I have been the victim of eminent domain twice! I can tell you that there is NO "Fair market value"! That is a pipe dream! I was told that the state representative could offer up to a max. amount and then my property would be condemned. I did a market analysis study of properties sold and condemned by the state and discovered that businesses and "politically well connected individuals" were being offered outrageous amounts of money FAR beyond what the property was actually worth.
When presented with this market analysis study and a letter to the govenor's office; the state,s offer for the property they were stealing from me at gun point suddenly and mysteriously increased by about %500. Still not what the property they were stealing was worth and it destroyed the value of the property with respect to our enjoyment of it so we sold it (took over a year to find a buyer and we had to take a significant hit in the selling price) and moved (at our own expense). We should have been paid quadruple the amount we received. Understanding how the system works, we realized that we had better take the last best offer or chance going to court and spending thousands on a potentially endless process and a corrupt and questionable outcome.
This type of abuse of power will eventually push our society back to what I call the 3 box system of justice and governance.
Box #1 = The ballot box
should justice or a constitutional decision be arrived at:
Box #2 = The jury box in which we hopefully can arrive at a just and constitutional decision.
should this step fail:
Box #3 = The cartridge box; which unfortunatedly we are beginning to see more and more instances of.
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